Chain of Wealth

E205- Teacher Dilemma

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Denis O’Brien [0:37]
Welcome to Episode 205 Teacher Dilemma. Hey money clan, a very warm welcome to the Chain of Wealth podcast. I’m your host, Denis O’Brien.

Katie Welsh [0:49]
And I’m Katie Welsh.

Denis O’Brien [0:50]
So Katie, quite a cool fun topic today diving into a conversation you overheard recently at work.

Katie Welsh [0:56]
Yeah, ahh more like an eavesdrop. Oh, really an overhear like a eavesdrop because I had nothing going on. And I heard these two co-workers talking about student loans. So I just kind of tweaked my ear into their direction to hear what they’re talking about.

Denis O’Brien [1:42]
And what you heard really concerned you?

Katie Welsh [1:45]
Um, I would not have taken this same route that a co-worker would have.

Denis O’Brien [1:22]
Okay, cool. So excited to hear what that’s all about. So if you guys haven’t already, we are looking to expand our Instagram presence. We’d love it if you sent us a DM,

Katie Welsh [1:32]

Denis O’Brien [1:33]
It’s @chainofwealth on Instagram. So definitely hit us up and tell us what you want more of on the show.

Katie Welsh [1:39]

Denis O’Brien [1:40]
Alright Kate ready to dive right into today’s episode.

Katie Welsh [1:42]

Denis O’Brien [1:42]
Fantastic. Let’s do it.

Voice Over [1:45]
Welcome to Chain of Wealth, here’s your host, Denis inspiring you to begin your journey of financial freedom.

Denis O’Brien [1:58]
Alright Kate, so I’d love to hear what you ever heard. So give us the DL.

Katie Welsh [2:4]
Okay. So I’m just going to give you like the whole backstory. Okay. So my job right now has a bit of construction going on. So we don’t actually park at the school, we park down the street and like this random parking lot. And we take this shuttle which aka a bus from the school, and they take us to and from our cars when we have to go and leave in the morning. And then the afternoon. So with that said

Denis O’Brien [2:34]
So so wait basically it adds a major inconvenience to your day, because you got to get there early, and you gotta leave later. Right?

Katie Welsh [3:9]
You could look at it that way Denis. What I was going to say is it has presented the opportunity to really get to know your co-workers because we spend all this time on the shuttle together. It’s all about perspective, Honey.

Denis O’Brien [2:55]
This is true.

Katie Welsh [2:56]
Yes. So anyway, Friday afternoon, everybody is wanting to leave and I’m on the shuttle with in Friday afternoon. The first shuttle to that we’re able to leave on is always slammed.

Denis O’Brien [3:9]
Right ’cause everyone wants to get home,

Katie Welsh [3:11]
Right. So and I’m wanting to get out of there not to go home, but I tutor on Friday afternoon. And it’s like the hardest side hustle gig ever to go and tutor more on a Friday afternoon. But that’s besides the point. So

Denis O’Brien [3:26]
yeah, no, no, just on that note, kudos to you. Because yeah, after your day job on a Friday, most people are ready to go home and you’re like gearing up for side hustle number two, right?

Katie Welsh [3:35]
Yeah, I don’t I don’t partake in Friday, happy hours. I partake in Friday, let’s read words with a long letter a sound. That’s my Friday, happy hours. But anyway, it’s a great gig. And I love it. I’m super thankful for it. So anyway, back to my story. We’re on the shuttle. And there are three of us. It’s me and two other girls. And we’re talking about actually this Halloween type wine tour thing that they have in Virginia here, kind of locally, and we’re all talking about going. But somehow we went from talking about a wine tour to you know, slowly making our way to our cars. And I said I had to go and do my my tutoring. And they’re all like, Oh, girl, you’re crazy. Oh, no way. But I told them like this is how I paid off my student loan. I hustle constantly

Denis O’Brien [3:46]

Katie Welsh [4:20]
And the one girl told, she said that she had almost paid off her $30,000 undergrad loan. But she still had like her $50,000 graduate degree. Yes. And by this point, like I’m actually starting to run a little late for tutoring. So I’m like, really aggressively making it to my car. But I heard the two other girls talking about payoff plans. And she said to the other girl, and I was like 3 cars over that she is just going to continue doing the income driven repayment plan, which she will be able to pay off her loan in 30 years, because her payment is only $20 a month. And I didn’t say anything I’m leaving. And side note. Most of the people at my job. Don’t know that I am personal finance related at all

Denis O’Brien [5:45]

Katie Welsh [5:46]
In fact, if I remember, last week, I told you about Fincon, I told somebody that I was going to Fincon and they just assumed I didn’t know how to pay my bills. They really don’t know about the podcast. And but as I got into the car, all I could do was cringe for two reasons. Because I know this girl, she’s about my age. So she’s 30ish. And she is planning on paying off her teaching student loan until she is in her 60s.

Denis O’Brien [6:20]
Yeah, that is nuts.

Katie Welsh [6:21]
My goodness girlfriend. No, that’s not how it should be like, don’t do that. Second, I gave myself a little bit of a pat on the back, because that was I don’t have a master’s degree. But that was me two years ago, Den because I had just kind of accepted the fact that I was going to be paying on my student loan until I died. In fact, I joked about it with people, I would say, Oh, I’m gonna be paying my student loan until I die. It never occurred to me,

Denis O’Brien [6:53]
That you would actually pay it all.

Katie Welsh [6:54]
That I would pay it off. Yeah. So that really got me thinking how many people how many teachers are just riding this out and hoping for the best for their student loans?

Denis O’Brien [7:9]
Kate you know, what scares me as well is okay. That’s great and all that you want to do the income driven repayment plan. But are you following the rules

Katie Welsh [7:20]
That is the scary part.

Denis O’Brien [7:20]
In such a way that you’re actually going to qualify for forgiveness when when that term comes?

Katie Welsh [7:26]
No Den, even that, okay, that is a different story. I don’t think she was on the teacher loan forgiveness plan. The way she made it sound and again, eavesdropping in like the 30 seconds I heard.

Denis O’Brien [7:39]
Oh right yeah yip you’re right. Sorry my bad.

Katie Welsh [7:40]
She said in 30 years.

Denis O’Brien [7:42]
Yeah. So yeah, you’re quite right. She is not looking for forgiveness. And

Katie Welsh [8:15]

Denis O’Brien [8:15]
And the worst part is that she probably does qualify for forgiveness plans.

Katie Welsh [7:50]
She absolutely does. She’s been a teacher for longer than I have been a teacher. So I, I don’t know. So I need your advice. Because they don’t know about my secret life as a podcaster. Do I like I feel like that’s weird to kind of impose on me like, Look, you’re doing it wrong?

Denis O’Brien [8:15]
Well Kate, here’s the thing right, when it comes something like that, you could keep quiet, and not say anything. But you’ve earned all his knowledge. And you know, a lot more than average Joe and your position,

Katie Welsh [8:28]
I know.

Denis O’Brien [8:28]
So it’s technically like doing them a disservice not to speak up and say something, and not to be like a know-it-all. Because, you know, that’s what you don’t want to be perceived as either.

Katie Welsh [8:38]
I know,

Denis O’Brien [8:39]
But you have over 200 episodes of Chain of Wealth. And you you dealt in the trenches, you know, you’ve paid off your $40,000 student loan.

Katie Welsh [8:51]
Well, and that had come up. So I don’t, I don’t know if these conversations find me or if I find them. But I have been in more student loan conversations at this school than I had in my prior school. And I don’t know, maybe because I’m a little bit more in tune to it. I notice it more often. But do this topic comes up often. Or maybe it’s because every person I work with has a student loan. But it does come up quite often. And admittedly, I am so willing to talk to anybody about student loans. I love talking about it. In a work situation. I am like a clam. I don’t say anything.

Denis O’Brien [9:38]

Katie Welsh [9:38]
I think that is actually kinda weird.

Denis O’Brien [9:42]
Yeah. And I mean, Kate, you know, like, I think what we should probably do is we should chat about what are some of the options available to teachers? And just to like just throw some ideas around, you know, in terms of what that conversation could have gone like.

Katie Welsh [9:56]
Kind of prepare me for what I could say.

Denis O’Brien [9:58]
Yeah, exactly.

Katie Welsh [9:59]

Denis O’Brien [9:59]
And right before we do that, I think that’d be a great time to take a very short break and say a very big thanks to our sponsor. Are you looking to get ahead in life, if so, Savvi Financial might be the tool that you’re looking for. Kate and I have recently started using Savvi Financial to manage our own money. What we love about it is that it connects to all of your virtual accounts. So your bank account, your mortgages, everything else like that. It just sinks everything together, and you have a holistic view of your finances. Savvi Financial is a great tool and it was created by a team of MIT trained data scientists. And they have created an absolutely awesome platform. If you’d like to check out Savvi Financial, you can head on over to S A V V I . That’s . Savvi Financial is free. So definitely check out this awesome tool. Alright Kate so right before the break, we spoke about your student loans and what that conversation will sort of look like if you had to have said something?

Katie Welsh [11:5]
Yeah, how if I would have chimed in what I could have said.

Denis O’Brien [11:11]

Katie Welsh [11:12]
So I’m not gonna lie it. When I was paying off my student loan, I was not for everybody. Right? I was not looking to see what Sarah could do down the hall. And then what this girl could do and what that girl could do. I was all about me, it was the me show.

Denis O’Brien [11:32]

Katie Welsh [11:32]
And I, we figured out what I needed to do to pay off my loan. But now I’m a little curious to see like, what are the options for a co-worker’s or another teacher in their same situation? So from what I have gathered, there are four different types of forgiveness programs for teachers,

Denis O’Brien [11:58]

Katie Welsh [11:59]
Teacher loan forgiveness, that’s what I did. And in short, you can get either $5,000 forgiven or $17,500. I’m fairly certain. There’s a big difference here. Basically, if you are a teacher, going it special ed certified if you still have to pay off your student loan, because that will certify you to be able to get there $17,500 forgiven on your student loan.

Denis O’Brien [12:31]
So Kay, quick question. Like to get that extra certification. How much extra work is that actually?

Katie Welsh [12:35]
I don’t have this certification, sadly. But I want to say it’s not that much work.

Denis O’Brien [12:41]

Katie Welsh [12:41]
It’s probably a test, it’s probably maybe an online course, I’m not super sure. And it probably depends on where you’re living. Like which state, I wish I would have had it because I was only able to qualify for the $5,000 forgiveness, because I like to call it a regular Joe teacher, I am a all the time I was a third grade teacher, in a title one school. That was it. I had special needs kids in my class, but I didn’t have their certification, therefore not qualified for their 17,500.

Denis O’Brien [13:19]
So quick question on this option one, do you have to be in a title one school to quantify?

Katie Welsh [13:23]
I believe so.

Denis O’Brien [14:22]

Katie Welsh [13:26]
Option number two that I read about was called the Perkin loan cancellation. And that is specific for a certain kind of loan? To be honest, I’ve never heard of that loan. I don’t know anybody who’s had the loan. So I didn’t do a ton of research on it. But I do know that. I think it said that it was tiered depending on how long you’ve been teaching. And it can cover up to 100% of your loan.

Denis O’Brien [14:22]
Oh, wow hectic.

Katie Welsh [13:54]
Yes. Then there’s the typical public service loan, which is for teachers, but could also be for firefighters or police officers are nurses and everything like that. And that can also forgive. And there’s a lot of information online about that.

Denis O’Brien [14:13]
So just real quick, if thats the one that’s misunderstood right a lot of people

Katie Welsh [14:46]
with a

Denis O’Brien [14:18]
Like oh my Ioans going to get forgiven, but a 120 payments,

Katie Welsh [14:22]
Right. But you have to have your ducks completely in a row with this one. Because if you know 108 payments ago, you paid even a penny more because you’re like, you know what, I’m going to pay more towards my loan because I’m trying to do a good job, then you’re going to disqualify yourself, and that’s just going to be Bad News Bears. Are you later on? Pay what they tell you to

Denis O’Brien [14:46]
Right. So it’s qualifying payments,

Katie Welsh [14:48]

Denis O’Brien [14:49]
They don’t have to be in a row. I don’t think they just have to be 120 qualifying payments, right?

Katie Welsh [14:54]
I believe so I think you can defer it. But you have like you have to go

Denis O’Brien [15:28]
to make the hundred and 20 payments.

Katie Welsh [15:1]

Denis O’Brien [15:1]

Katie Welsh [15:2]
And then there are, again, varying on the state that you’re living in. They also offer different forgiveness plans, like I know, Florida, which is where I did most of my living offers, I think, two different types of plans. Whereas Connecticut, if I remember reading correctly, sorry, Connecticut. You guys don’t get any?

Denis O’Brien [15:27]

Katie Welsh [15:28]

Denis O’Brien [15:28]
Well, the crazy thing is, is when we paid off your loan, we didn’t know half of the stuff about all these different loans and like what you qualify for and

Katie Welsh [15:37]
No, because we could have qualified for the teacher loan forgiveness, and

Denis O’Brien [15:45]
Which we did because you got that.

Katie Welsh [15:46]
Which we did.

Denis O’Brien [15:46]

Katie Welsh [15:47]
But I think we also may have qualified for the public service.

Denis O’Brien [15:52]
Yeah. And maybe even a Florida one as well.

Katie Welsh [15:54]
Yeah, I probably could have worked that a little bit better.

Denis O’Brien [15:59]

Katie Welsh [15:59]

Denis O’Brien [16:0]
I mean, to be honest, we had no idea what we were doing at the time. Like now we were much more clued up with what’s going on.

Katie Welsh [16:5]
Right? Well, not only that, but to be honest with you, Den the paperwork. And this is a little embarrassing to admit to so many people. But the paperwork for me to fill out to get that $5,000 forgiven was a lot more challenging for me, then it probably should have,

Denis O’Brien [16:55]
Hey, but you still managed to do it.

Katie Welsh [16:27]
Oh, well, I managed to do it with your help. I had tried doing it. Before I had gotten rejected because I filled out the form wrong. So when you are filling out these forms for the forgiveness of your loans, if they want something, make sure it is right. Take the extra time because it is such a pain in the butt to have it sent back and declined.

Denis O’Brien [16:53]
Yeah, I totally agree.

Katie Welsh [16:54]
That’s not fun.

Denis O’Brien [16:55]
Yeah. And like the last thing you want to do is add moments on because at the end of the day time is money, you know, and each extra month that goes by that extra interest that you’re being charged if you don’t get down that principle.

Katie Welsh [17:6]
Yes. And at the rate I was going for a long time. I was getting about $5 a day.

Denis O’Brien [17:12]
Yeah, that’s crazy.

Katie Welsh [17:13]
Thats a lot. That is your Starbucks latte.

Denis O’Brien [17:16]
It is. So let’s chat about your teacher friend. So if she’s going to be paying it off until she’s in her 60s, she would have liked just a rough calculation, she probably would have paid almost the entire value of her loan twice because of the interest.

Katie Welsh [17:31]

Denis O’Brien [17:31]
So if she owed like 30,000, she’d probably end up paying back about $60,000 over that 30 year period.

Katie Welsh [17:38]
Well, not only that Den like that. Yes, that is a shame. But eventually, this girl is going to want to have a family.

Denis O’Brien [18:44]
Yeah you’re right.

Katie Welsh [17:47]
And her kids are going to grow up inevitably. And she’s not gonna be able to help her kids because she’s still paying on her own student loan from a million years before that. And I think that is the real shame.

Denis O’Brien [17:59]
Yeah Kate, you know the thing is, like a little little planning goes so so far. And if you can just get your whole yourself ahead on one little item, you’re gonna like it has such a knock on effect for years to come really.

Katie Welsh [18:12]
Yeah, it really, it really does.

Denis O’Brien [18:44]
Anyway, so just to wrap up this episode, Kate and I are actually producing a course specifically to teachers.

Katie Welsh [18:21]
This course inspired or this happening, eavesdropping inspired the idea for my for our course.

Denis O’Brien [18:29]
Right. Yeah, well, and also the fact that you managed to pay off so much debt in such a short period of time as well. So we will let you guys know more information that’s available. This is specific to teachers though if you’re not a teacher, you’re not gonna qualify for this.

Katie Welsh [18:42]
Sorry, guys.

Denis O’Brien [18:42]
Sorry. But

Katie Welsh [18:43]
Tell your teacher friends.

Denis O’Brien [18:44]
Yeah. And if you are in a different profession, and you do you feel like you really need help with your loans. Hit us up on Instagram, it’s @chainofwealth on Instagram. So let us know like if you’re in a different profession, or how much debt you owe, let us know and we can point you in the right direction.

Katie Welsh [19:0]
For sure.

Denis O’Brien [19:1]
Cool. Well, Kate absolutely loved hearing the conversation and quick question. If you’re in that conversation again, how would you do it differently?

Katie Welsh [19:10]
Um, I would probably throw in like a little nugget of you should probably think about paying that off a little sooner. And then by the time you’re 65.

Denis O’Brien [19:21]
Yeah, I think you know, like just that one little statement can actually have such a knock on effect if she had listened to your advice. So yeah, I totally agree.

Katie Welsh [19:29]
Maybe I won’t clam next

Denis O’Brien [19:30]
time. around money clan. It’s been lots of fun hanging out and we’ll catch you next time on another episode of Chain of Wealth.

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