Chain of Wealth

E199- Things We’ve Learned Podcasting

Connect with Our Guest

Subscribe to Chain of Wealth

Join 40,515 Monthly Listeners

Subscribe to Chain of Wealth

Join 40,515 Monthly Listeners

Pro Tip: Timestamps below are clickable. Click on the time below in the brackets and the audio will start playing at that part of the show.

Need a financial checkout? Head on over to and let’s help you manage your money better! Only $75 for 30 minutes deep dive!

Denis O’Brien [0:37]
Welcome to Episode 199 Things We’ve Learned Podcasting. Hey, money clan a very warm welcome to the Chain of Wealth podcast. I’m your host, Denis O’Brien,

Katie Welsh [0:49]
And I’m Katie Welsh.

Denis O’Brien [1:19]
So Katie, I can’t believe it. 199 episodes.

Katie Welsh [0:54]
Can you believe it? It has actually been like such a blur and it has really been a lot of fun.

Denis O’Brien [1:2]
Yeah, and to be honest, like, it sounds like so many episodes like basically 200 episodes in you know, but really, it’s been an adventure and like, it really hasn’t been that long. We’ve like we’ve wedding this milestone less than two years into podcasting.

Katie Welsh [1:19]
I know our two year old birthday is in November,

Denis O’Brien [1:22]

Katie Welsh [1:22]

Denis O’Brien [1:22]
So yeah, absolutely crazy that we’ve hit this milestone. But So today, we’re just going to dive into a couple of things we’ve learned from guests and everything else. So before we dive on in, if you guys haven’t already, don’t forget to join our Facebook community. You can head on over to, and come and say hi, alright, Kate, are you ready to dive on in?

Katie Welsh [1:42]

Denis O’Brien [1:42]
Let’s do it.

Voice Over [2:13]
Welcome to Chain of Wealth, here’s your host, Denis inspiring you to begin your journey of financial freedom.

Denis O’Brien [1:57]
So Kate, 199 episodes and what an adventure it has been. And like you said, we’ve learned a ton of stuff and it’s been pretty fun along the road.

Katie Welsh [2:7]
So when I think back to Episode 1…2…3, episode

Denis O’Brien [2:13]

Katie Welsh [2:43]
Zero, remember episode 0, the introductory goodness gracious that is so bad.

Denis O’Brien [2:22]
If you guys want to hear one of the most embarrassing voiceovers, but recordings, go back to episode zero now listen to us.

Katie Welsh [2:58]
Yes. So when the podcasts first started, we took ourselves way too seriously. And there was no smiling or joking or fun having allowed.

Denis O’Brien [2:41]
Well, we didn’t really understand the medium and

Katie Welsh [2:43]

Denis O’Brien [2:44]
Like understand it’s more of a conversation with people and like the even the people listening to podcast, they want to hear a conversation. They don’t want to hear something that’s been scripted.

Katie Welsh [2:53]
Like a robot.

Denis O’Brien [2:54]
Yeah, exactly. So we were like heavily scripted. It’s like insert laugh here.

Katie Welsh [2:58]
and and we would, we would go ha haha hahaha.

Denis O’Brien [3:1]
Yeah, absolutely terrible, if you want to laugh go listen to it. Anyway, so chatting about some of the guests that we’ve interviewed and some of the things that we’ve learned. So for those of you don’t know, when Chain of Wealth started, Kate and I had a massive debt conversation. That’s really how Chain of Wealth came about. And it was essentially documenting Kate’s payoff journey and interviewing other people that are either doing it or have something interesting to tell us about making money or getting out of debt, or whatever it is. And yeah, since then, you’ve managed to get out over basically $200,000 worth of debt.

Katie Welsh [3:34]
Yeah, so we decided to do a podcast because I needed to pay off all this debt, and become smarter with money. And I didn’t, I didn’t even know where to start. So like, quick story. I didn’t know that I was bad at managing money, I owned a house, I had a new car, I had an emergency savings. I didn’t go out shopping on my credit card. And I thought I was doing pretty well until I moved in with Denis. And he totaled up all of my debt. And it was a staggering $200,000. And as ridiculous as it is, I was completely shell shocked. I had no idea. And it kind of snowballed from there. So we decided, how are we going to pay this off? What are we going to do? And I thought that you keep your money, like basically right where you can see it. So I kept it right in my bank account, in my bank savings account. And that’s where I kept everything. And I thought that’s where you’re supposed to. I knew like some people invested. But I didn’t really know how to invest. And when people talked about investing in the stock market, I really had no idea I was completely clueless. And, you know, from what I saw on the stock market, like somehow you do it, and then you watch the stock market channel on TV to see if it was going up or down or what was going on. And then eventually you get like statements in the mail. If that’s what you think investing in the stock market is or investing in anything. Welcome to 2019. And it is not like that at all. No, it’s not. So it has really been in the last 200 episodes. Like you’re in

Denis O’Brien [5:31]
Almost two years, yeah.

Katie Welsh [5:33]
I personally have gotten a completely different flipped around education than what I thought I knew. Yeah, about money.

Denis O’Brien [5:43]
Yeah, and me as well, Kate, like I’ve also learned a ton as well. And you know, I am a finance professional, like just in terms of what I studied and everything else. But even though I knew what to do, I wasn’t necessarily doing it. And we’ve often had conversations about how I’m actually the spender between the two of us.

Katie Welsh [6:1]

Denis O’Brien [6:1]
Yeah, So if you guys are looking to get your handle on money, and everything else, and you’d like to work directly with us, we are currently working with a couple of people. And we would like to invite you if you would like to work directly with Katie and myself to actually help get a grip on your money. Hit us up. It’s and just send us a message and let us know where you are in your money journey. And we’ll let you know how we can work with you and help you achieve your money goals.

Katie Welsh [6:27]

Denis O’Brien [6:28]
Yeah. So in terms of like other people that we’ve interviewed Kate and just stuff that we’ve learned in general, something that I’ve taken away is that so many people are in debt, and they don’t really talk about it. You know, money is such a taboo topic.

Katie Welsh [6:42]
It’s never talked about.

Denis O’Brien [6:44]
It’s never talked about, and everyone just assumes that everyone knows what’s going on. And, you know, a lot of people feel like they’re they’re by themselves, and they’re just drowning.

Katie Welsh [6:52]
Well, and I always kind of felt like, well, as long as my, you know, debit card, because I never bought anything on credit. But as long as my debit card doesn’t come back declined when I’m out to dinner with my friends, then I’m doing okay.

Denis O’Brien [7:6]
But it’s actually a lot more productive than that. And you really have to be thinking long term.

Katie Welsh [7:10]

Denis O’Brien [7:10]
And it’s not the coffee that you should be worrying about it should be 30 40 years down the road. Where will that money be? You know, where we are investments, that’s really we need to be thinking about it or even like even close to that, damn, how you How are you going to get out of debt? Yeah, you’ve got a bit of credit card debt, you got a car loan,

Katie Welsh [7:28]
You have a student loan.

Denis O’Brien [7:29]
Student loan, what are you doing proactively to actually manage that and get out of it? And let’s be real, a lot of people do what I’ve commonly dubbed as the ostrich technique where they just put their head in the ground, and they pretend that they don’t know what’s going on.

Katie Welsh [7:42]
Can I ask you a question?

Denis O’Brien [7:44]

Katie Welsh [7:44]
Did you come up with that? after me?

Denis O’Brien [7:46]

Katie Welsh [7:47]
Thank you. I feel a little hurt. But also a little humbled by that

Denis O’Brien [7:52]
Yeah, I mean, the ostrich technique, is just something that people do when they don’t want to face the reality of what they’re in. And, you know, like, I’m not, it’s not a bad thing on you. Like, I think that, like Kate didn’t try to go into debt. she stumbled into that much debt, but she thought she was doing everything correct. But the problem with Kate that society is designed that way. You know, you chat people and they’re like, oh, you’re going to college do what loan are you taking out, it’s just an assumption that you’re going to be taking out debt to like fund your education, because that’s what everyone’s doing

Katie Welsh [8:24]
Well, and it’s so expensive.

Denis O’Brien [8:26]
But Kate, the thing is like if you know how to like, make your money work for you, you on the flip side of that, where you don’t have to worry about taking out these loans.

Katie Welsh [8:34]
That is true.

Denis O’Brien [8:35]
The people that have, you know, setup 529 plans, and they’ve thought ahead for their children, like their kids are gonna go into a world where they don’t have any debt. And they have got a clean slate to sort of try and build up as much money as what they can. And there’s nothing like standing in their way.

Katie Welsh [8:52]
Well, and to be able to be in that position and start a 529 plan for your kids, especially when they’re little and I’m a teacher by trade. And let me tell you, when you drop them off the first day of kindergarten, 12 13 years later, when they’re graduating, that is a quick couple of years really dropping your kindergartener off, you need to go open that 529 plan, because it is so nice. And we’ve heard so many heart wrenching stories where people can’t help their kids because there’s, you know, they’ve been graduated out of college for 20 30 years, and they’re still paying on their student loan. And now grandparents are taking out student loans to help their grandchildren go.

Denis O’Brien [9:38]
Yeah, it’s totally out of control. And Kate, the worst part is that these become societal norms, you know, young people just like oh, well, that’s expected. Oh, you’re getting a car? What car loan are you getting, you know.

Katie Welsh [9:49]
Yeah, well, first what was your interest rate?

Denis O’Brien [9:51]
What was your interest rate? Yeah.

Katie Welsh [9:52]
How long is your payment plan?

Denis O’Brien [9:54]
Instead of thinking about alright. Well, how do we pay for that cash? And how do we avoid that? And look, not to say that debt is always bad, you know, there is a time and a place for debt. And in fact, you can make a lot of money, if you’re using debt to your advantage. If you already got a really low cost, and you’re making money off an asset, that’s a great investment. Yeah, you know, so it does definitely work both ways. But, you know, after chatting to so many people, we see the same kind of trends coming through from everyone that we chat to, and whether it’s on the debt side, whether it’s on the investing side, or whether it’s on the entrepreneurial side, you know, there’s a lot of common trends that we see with people.

Katie Welsh [10:32]
So I have a question for you.

Denis O’Brien [10:33]

Katie Welsh [10:34]
So I’m not going to ask you to pinpoint a specific interview we’ve done because we, like we said have done quite a few. But is there a type of interview that you relate to most like a topic or something like that, that you personally find the most inspiration out of?

Denis O’Brien [10:54]
So Kate. I really enjoy the people that we interviewed that have that they’re doing something for themselves, you know, something different, and it’s something on the side, that’s what I really appreciate, because

Katie Welsh [11:4]
The side hustle struggle.

Denis O’Brien [11:5]
The side hustle struggle, you know, finding ways to make more money. And whether it’s, you know, someone’s decided to figure out how to invest safely in crypto currency, or whether it’s someone who set up an Amazon FBA business or someone that’s you know, doing Bert’s scooters to earn a little bit of money, like charging them or whether it’s someone that’s found their own side hustle using a hobby, any of those I find really inspirational, because I think the moment that you’re able to increase your income, you’re enough significantly better place.

Katie Welsh [11:34]
Okay, that’s very nice.

Denis O’Brien [11:35]
And how about you?

Katie Welsh [11:36]
Umm, definitely the people who either are in debt and struggling their way through, or people who have recently paid off debt. Because I felt like I was talking to like, my soul sister, a lot of the times.

Denis O’Brien [11:50]

Katie Welsh [11:51]
Paying off, especially a lot of debt when you’re talking over six figures in debt. It’s a lot.

Denis O’Brien [11:58]

Katie Welsh [11:59]
And when I had my kind of come to Jesus moment, I had no job. So having a lot of debt, and no job, really, is a recipe to not be able to sleep at night. And then when I finally got a job, and I got things together, and I was on, you know, a roll, and I was doing my thing, paying off debt month, after month after month, and I was making towards the end, like 3000 $3500 a month payments.

Denis O’Brien [12:31]

Katie Welsh [12:32]
And it is soul crushing.

Denis O’Brien [12:36]
Well, that and the fact that your day job wasn’t even enough, you having to figure out an additional, like thousand dollars a month to make up for it.

Katie Welsh [12:45]
That’s tough. So it, I found it really motivational to talk to people who are either also in the struggle with me, or have also done it because I look at people and it’s like, well, if they were able to do it, then I can do it too. And they would just give me that extra, like, push of you know self confidence. And, you know, get me over that little hump. And those were the ones that I really related to.

Denis O’Brien [13:15]
Yeah, and, you know, I also think going forward, like, we’ve had a lot of requests to do a lot more investing episodes as well. So we will be diving into that kind of stuff, too. So definitely a really cool area. And you know, like, that’s really where you start make your money work for you. Yeah, once you’ve already conquered debt. And, you know, like, I think that we would love to tell you guys that we want to hear your story. We want to be involved in what you’re doing. And like how you’re managing to get ahead with your money. You know, so the more you guys sort of reach out to us and let us know what’s going on, the more we can help you and we can start tailoring content towards what you guys want.

Katie Welsh [13:52]
Yeah, for sure.

Denis O’Brien [13:54]
So Kate, I have to ask you something.

Katie Welsh [13:56]
Oh Boy, I’m a little nervous.

Denis O’Brien [13:58]
What advice? Would you have people that are considering starting a podcast about like money?

Katie Welsh [14:3]
Oh, that’s a good question. Um, I would have to say, and I’m not even going to say a podcast about money, a podcast about anything, or any kind of endeavor that you’re kind of teetering back and forth, you know, maybe talking to your best friend over a cocktail about something that you want to do, but you’re kind of feeling a little chickeny about is to just start it. Because you’re going to keep thinking about it and thinking about it and thinking about it. And that time is going to go by and you’re not doing anything proactively, where if you at least start it. Now you have a starting point, you have at least started and sort of figuring things out and you’re on a roll. And, you know, it will only get easier from there. We had this I feel like when we started our podcast, the beginning podcast, struggle.

Denis O’Brien [15:0]
Just learning all the technical stuff.

Katie Welsh [15:2]
Oh, my goodness, thank goodness, there is not a camera in our apartment, to show conversations, and meltdowns and frustrations, because they were definitely there. So if you’re starting something and you’re nervous about it, because you don’t know how to do it, that’s even better. Because now you’re just going to better yourself. And, you know, the skills that I have learned from podcasting that I have been able to translate over into my quote, unquote, real life have really been handy. I am not computer savvy and the fact that I am able to record a podcast, edit it upload it, create create some semi cute pictures to go along with it. It makes me feel really proud of myself.

Denis O’Brien [15:55]
Right and you almost become like an artist as well, you know, you just expressing like where you’re at. And it’s already a cool medium, you know, knowing that, you know, you have a little bit of a voice and people are interested in what you’re doing.

Katie Welsh [16:7]
Yeah, well, and even when we go out. And you know, we don’t wear like big signs on our T-shirts that say like, I have a podcast. But sometimes it will come up, you know, in conversation. And a lot of times, it’s like, friends who know we have a podcast or merely mention it and then other people in the group will kind of be like, Oh, you have a podcast? And then it’s kind of fun to talk about. So it’s something if anything, a good conversation to have, if you’re doing something a little bit different. Say you start a blog, or a podcast, or you have a YouTube channel, all those kind of things are so cool. And it’s really easy for just like Joe Schmo sitting in their apartment, to be able to start.

Denis O’Brien [16:53]
Yep, super true.

Katie Welsh [16:54]
So that is my advice for somebody who’s looking to start something, just go for it.

Denis O’Brien [17:0]
Yeah. And someone listen to this podcast for the first time and they have a mountain of debt, what would you have to say to them?

Katie Welsh [17:9]
I would say after you’re done crying, and eating your ice cream, just start making your payments, because the more and I didn’t realize this, in the beginning. And now I don’t want to be like super metaphorical or anything. But like, I see, like the relationship to like principal interest and debt in almost everything. So I will just put in, for example, digging a hole at the beach, like in the sand. So you know, when you’re digging a hole digging a hole digging a hole, it starts to be a little bit deeper, and then that pesky sand like keeps going back in and it’s like depleting your goal.

Denis O’Brien [17:51]

Katie Welsh [17:51]
Digging like the biggest sandcastle hole, that is debt. So even, like you’re making these payments, but then that interest is, you know, keeping your balance right where it is, or even, you know, nothing is more miserable feeling than paying $100. And seeing you know, your principal balance drop, and then checking it a few days later

Denis O’Brien [18:15]
And not seeing a job as much as you paid.

Katie Welsh [18:17]
Or seeing it even higher than the last time you like, let me talk to you about your mind being kind of blown. Because I’m not super great at math. And I was just like, but I just made $100 payment. And then you see the interest. And she’s like, oh, my goodness, I’m never

Denis O’Brien [18:34]
Feels like your not making any headway.

Katie Welsh [18:35]
You’re not at all.

Denis O’Brien [18:36]

Katie Welsh [18:36]
And you just have to keep throwing every extra cent that you can towards that. Because eventually, once you pay your interest amount for the month, so say you pay $30 on interest. If you pay $45 in total, that $15 it’s going to slowly bring it down.

Denis O’Brien [18:36]

Katie Welsh [18:48]
So you just have to keep going with your payments and keep on a consistent schedule. Consistency, even when it’s really hard is key.

Denis O’Brien [19:39]
Yeah, and eventually get those principal payments higher and higher that you may be able to make it each month. But yeah, like you said, it takes a lot of time. So I think that’s about all we have time for today. But guys, we’ve absolutely loved hanging out through these last 200 episodes. And once again, if you guys would like to work with us and help yourselves get ahead, whether it’s from a debt perspective, or from a investing perspective, we would love to work with you, you can head on over to and let us know how we can help you.

Katie Welsh [19:39]
Alright, to the next 200.

Denis O’Brien [19:41]
Yeah, to the next 200 episodes. We’re excited and thank you guys once again for listening to us. And if you do really enjoy the show, we would love it if you guys could leave us a rating or review. So

Katie Welsh [19:50]
and tell your friends

Denis O’Brien [19:51]
And tell your friends so definitely hop on all to those apps and let us know how we’re doing and how we can improve. Alright guys, we’ve absolutely loved hanging out today and we will catch you next time.

Enjoying Our Podcast?

We have over 150 episodes to listen to! Join over 2,167 daily listeners that pursue financial freedom.

By entering your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.

Other Podcasts

E221- Sunny from FamVestor

Fuller Bio Here: Sunny Burns is 29 and works Full-Time as a Project Engineer for the Department of Defense. He is happily married with

Listen »

E218- Gary Boomershine

Gary Boomershine founded in 2005 out of the need to scale and grow his own real estate investing and home buying business. With a

Listen »
About the Podcast
Chain of Wealth

Chain of Wealth

The Chain of Wealth podcast is a biweekly podcast boasting over 500,000 downloads. We interview inspirational guests about money topics. You can learn more about us here.

Share On

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *